Psychic Investigation Special: Psychics In Police Investigations

Updated: Jul 11

In this episode we discuss psychics in police investigations. Psychics have been involved with aiding police in cases of missing persons to cold case murders. Some of the evidence we've found is hard to deny. But, are they effective seers of the unknown, or sophisticated conmen? We examine some famous and insidious cases and make some shocking discoveries. Are psychic investigators the real deal or just kooks looking for fame? Come check it out!


[Music] hello everyone welcome back to the gab in the crab my name's brian my name is julie b and we are the gab and the crab

paranormal podcast and today's episode is going to be about psychics in police work all right and uh

i'm not sure if you knew or may or not have known but uh when a case gets desperate enough or goes on long enough

uh the police will actually employ the services of psychics okay so they'll help them discover uh bodies that will

help them find lost persons and they will help them solve cold cases okay so

but before we get started we'd like to invite you guys to subscribe to our youtube channel we'd like to invite you

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subscribe like and follow to get notified of our new content so on to today's topic without further

ado without further ado i love that you found this and i think it is really

exciting especially all the stuff that you found about it is just amazing so i'm excited to see all the other stuff

you didn't tell me all about well there is um psychics and police work so

maybe people don't take it seriously and what i found in the research was that it's about 50 50

and either it's 50 50 that either the cops that have worked with them either believe them 100 percent or they say

that they're completely full of it okay uh psychics either they have exact information that finds

people and missing persons and bodies and all the rest of it or they don't find anything okay it's like always a 50

50 proposition and to a lot of people out there this might sound like you know a bunch of woo-woo stuff and yeah right

a lot of people are just asking people are just guessing but the interesting thing is um we don't

have to take it seriously but the fbi sure does okay look at that so uh on which is the austin

office of justice programs and the us department of justice i don't recommend going to this site unless your browser

history is completely clean

or perhaps you have a vpn or something but let's just uh that's just fair warning

so anyway uh this is their memo this is their official policy on psychics and police

work so the annotation this came out in 1993

is the usefulness of psychics and police investigations is controversial but psychics have long been and undoubtedly

continue to be involved in unsolved criminal investigations and the abstract is because i'm not going to read all

five pages is that psychics include clairvoyance prophesizers telepaths palmists

numerologists graphologists and metaphysicians both psychics and detectives based their

work on intuition to some extent and the most famous psychic is dorothy allison of nutley new jersey and she's assisted

uh police in more than four thousand investigations and received many letters from law enforcement agencies describing

how she helped them to produce information in a criminal investigation most psychics like to have an article uh or photograph of the

victim or visit the victim's home or the crime scene uh allison in this case uh asks only

that the person for the person's date and place of birth and date and location last seen okay so and then there's an

organization called ppu which is professional psychics united a network of more than 380 psychics and a

volunteer psychic rescue team the ppu uh psychics usually become

involved only after the police contact them so that is and it kind of goes on here a

little bit uh it says 31 out of 50 large police agencies have never used psychics which

means that 19 of them have admittedly anyway well admittedly and it's probably better than none but i

mean you know just like you said when they're at that point they're really looking for some sort of help they're just they're

desperate and they're just like we need we need something um i think so tell me

about this dorothy allison i've never heard of her and i'm kind of um a little shame to say that i haven't

heard of her before well i mean it definitely caught my attention because the fbi bothered to mention her

in their official article you know dorothy allison so you did some

digging forget having your history clean when the fbi calls you out by name yeah yeah

that's it's noteworthy yeah exactly so uh according to

dorothy allison is volunteered to aid police as a psychic so her backstory is

when she was a child neighbors thought she was a witch at age 14 she said she had a vision of her father's death a few

weeks later he died of pneumonia dorothy allison suddenly came to the conclusion that she was a psychic her

mother a seer warned her that their visions were a gift and she should never use them for profit so uh over 30 years she traveled all

over the country doing detective work and then it says nine years ago whenever this article was written back in 1999

um she told her family that she would not live to be 75 and she died uh wednesday on a wednesday of heart

failure at age 74. so be careful about what you say to you about yourself yeah speak into existence for sure

and then um she is considered the dean of detective psychics and she wrote a

book about her work called a psychics story um so she has she's pretty famous and

she's been involved in some pretty famous cases so we can't go into all of them she was

obviously she was involved in 4 000 of them oh my gosh but some of the most notable ones um were that when she was a

kid she said there was um somebody who was lost and she had a dream about him there's a little boy that was lost okay

and she said she first volunteered her services in 1967 when she told the

nutley police that she had dreamed of a blonde blue-eyed boy in a green snow suit with his shoes on the wrong feet

drowned in a pond and his body stuck in a drain pipe gosh a month later a missing boy whose description had not

been publicized was found in a drain pipe and his shoes were on the wrong feet okay so that was the first time that i mean

it really became concrete for her that she had something going on yeah and then

in 1974 she was involved in the kidnapping she

was involved in the kidnapping she was involved in finding uh randolph hurst's granddaughter so

randolph hearst if you guys don't know he is the media magnate from earlier in the 1900s um

multi-multi-billionaire super rich well his granddaughter was kidnapped and they

couldn't find her they didn't know where she was um you know they kept getting ransom notes and this and that so

he wanted to you know turn turn over every stone so he contacted um

this uh dorothy and in 1974 randolph hearst invited her to

help find his kidnapped daughter patricia that's his granddaughter patricia hearst so alison didn't find the young woman

but later called the fbi twice to say that she felt patti was hiding in pennsylvania and then new york city

both feelings proved accurate and alison was also corrected predicting that the newspaper heirs would join her captors

in robbing a bank so whoa this is a crazy story if you guys don't

know about alex about the patty hearst so patty hearst was the multi-billionaire

granddaughter heiress of the hearst fortune the hearst um multimedia fortune

so she was kidnapped by a group of armed radicals according to again make

sure you clear that browsing history um was uh kidnapped by a group of armed

radicals and built themselves the symbionese libertarian army or the sla

the liberation army i'm sorry the symbionese liberation the libertarian indians liberation army or the sla

led by a harmon a hardened criminal named donald dufrese and the sla won nothing less but to

incite a guerrilla war against the us government and destroy what they call the capitalist state wow

yeah they always have like the liberation army every time they trust liberation they always wear berets and they're always talking about liberty

like what's with the berets there must be like a manual like if you want to go ahead and be part of the

liberation you need to go buy some berets listen guys there's only two things you need to join this army

liberate people from capitalism and a beret and a beret you want to have the desire to liberate people from from money and have a beret

you're in exactly so why they snatch hearst in order to get the country's attention uh hearst was a wealthy

powerful family her grandfather was a newspaper magnate william randolph hearst and the sla's plan worked well

the kidnapping stunned the country and made front page national news so where um

dorothy comes in is that she had predicted that she would be in new york and pennsylvania

and i guess um from them tracking this at this sla group all around the country that she

was in new york and she was in pennsylvania they had like hideouts there and then over time see at first she was

their victim okay so they kidnapped her they wanted to get um attention you know in all the newspapers that's he that's

how you used to get attention back then you couldn't just you know post stuff on facebook you had to kidnap somebody you had to kidnap somebody you had to go

and then make them wear a beret and make them wear a brain so you knew you corrupted them exactly

but over time she got uh stockholm syndrome and started to really uh

sympathize with her captors and that's actually how they found her was and you can see this is her right here

that she was a victim of these people that kidnapped her that's yeah and this is her on the right now with uh full

oops that's not very good picture but full beret and machine gun and uh they arrested these guys robbing

a bank in l.a and that's how they caught her oh my gosh so

dorothy allison has some skills so she found patty hearst who went from victim to uh beret

wearing revolutionary of course so two years after that uh it says that

allison saw the word mar on an uh and oil in connection with a missing 14 year

old girl in 1978 two boys found the girl's body in an oil drum in new york staten island near a rock with the word

marstralled on it and according to an article

called a psychic vision against shameful police um this was in staten island in new york in 1976

and it says that in 1976 susan jacobson was 14 and left her home to go on a job interview at a local

ice cream parlor and that's the last time her parents saw her uh it goes on the article to say that

the parents called the police the police said she's just run away they didn't have the resources to go look for so

they just they just wrote her up as a runaway but they knew that this was not like her at all and they knew something was wrong

so uh bill and ellen are the parents and they tried everything to locate their daughter but after a couple of weeks

they were no closer to finding her so they called a psychic dorothy allison i mean can you imagine

a couple of weeks not knowing where your kid is no and then the police are just like oh it's just i mean and she's 14

years old so it's not like you know going to a friend's house you're just running away compared to how

it is now to where someone's gone for 24 hours or even 12 hours they'll be you know i've even

seen where they're just like hey this is kind of a heads up of what's going on you can't call it a missing person's case but this is weeks that they haven't

heard from that two weeks it's crazy it is so crazy so um agreeing to help dorothy and her

husband uh only knowing that jacobs has needed their help in finding their daughter so as they sat down dorothy

asked bill if and ellen if the numbers 2 5 6 2 meant anything to them

they said it was their daughter's birthday february 5th 1962. dorothy then asked about the numbers 408

or 405. wow decision had been born at 405 am next dorothy asked to see

mar mar and the parents could tell her what it meant what it meant but bill and ellen had no idea what it was dorothy

then shared with them a vision she had about where susan's body was she'd seen abandoned cars the letters

marsh spray painted in red she could smell oil in the distance you could see two church steeples two smoke stacks

swamps and marshes surrounding her so the jacobson's called the police back hoping that they would make the case

serious um now that it had been so long and someone told them susan was dead but this police simply weren't interested

to them it was simply just a uh just just a missing kid who might come home one day

so uh after they found out that the police weren't gonna help him bill decided to take all the clues dorothy had given him and search himself oh my

god so it took him a while but he finally found an old world war one shipyard called down back

once he started searching the area he found a rock with the letters mar in red spray paint and he knew he had the right

spot but the problem was it was a massive area and completely filled with waste and trash so he searched whenever

he could but he never found susan his daughter so it goes on to say it would take two

years for when she went missing until a group of boys out hunting muskrat to find susan's body and she had been put

inside of an oil drum standing in the spot where the drum was found you can see two church steeples two smoke attacks and two smoke stacks

just as dory dorothy had predicted wow susan's body showed that she had been strangled and then shoved inside the

drum so the justice so justice in the story the the ending is that when dorothy first

talked about her vision she told susan's parents more than where to find their daughter dorothy revealed who had killed susan

also her boyfriend wow they finally had a body the police brought dempsey hawkins in for questioning at the time

of the murder susan was calling off the relationship and dempsey refused to let her go he was eventually tried and found

guilty and was given a 22 year sentence in prison and he was released in 2017 and was

deported back to england so wow so he did all of that

got found guilty and then they were able to send him he went back home

like they departed while they deported him he they gave him a 22-year sentence and then they said you're out of here

go you know go back to england and do what you do so wow yeah it's crazy

yeah can you i mean first off your 14 year old daughter goes missing she's gone for two weeks the police

won't help you you know it's like that's it's horrifying well and then for the father to be like fine i'm gonna go do

this on my own goes and looks i mean i couldn't i mean

i i i have i literally have no words for i mean obviously that desperation of a parent to be like where is where are

they well if you guys are gonna do it i'm gonna go look and he was standing right at the spot well and not to mention too like you know hey the body

of your daughter it's like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa what do you mean body of my daughter like let's talk about where she is yeah let's not talk

about the body of anybody no but at least they got closure and it i mean it's all on record it led to them

finding this guy him doing a 22-year sentence and then getting sent back to england yeah deported so

okay they got him dorothy good i mean that's amazing for her to be able to find that and to be able to find those little clues of just

like the thing that got me was okay what are the numbers two five six two mean for you yeah and you know with the work

that you know what she does and so many others it's like okay what does the number two mean it's like okay well maybe two this or

two that you know it means so you can kind of get you know and you know we've had a discussion of like you know really close

generalization like oh it's either a boy or girl it's like well yeah but for someone like her to be able to

get so precise of the numbers to show her date of birth and in the very beginning

she only asks for birth certificate of the day and the time they were born if they were born

and she didn't even have that of this case right so she already was picking up on exactly

that information yeah so it was two five six two yeah

yeah so that was the uh the yeah that was your birthday and it was her birthday and then in the very beginning you mentioned that she only asks for a

lot of psychics will ask for a photograph or a piece of clothing and i'm like okay i

get that like you know they're not really smelling dogs but you know but for her to be like she went

and didn't even have the birth certificate said saw the words mar and then was like okay hey this is what

we're going to do so well i like that she shows up too and says hey what are these what do these numbers mean to you yeah and they could say that doesn't

mean anything and she could just go i'm sorry to waste your time and i you know i this is what

i thought i saw but i appreciate it and maybe doesn't mean anything right it's like she just walked in was like

hey i know exactly where she is it's what does this number mean to you so

wow yeah so it was through her help that she found that young lady's body but she also

according to the article again the la times article um had a hand in the son of sam murders

back in new york oh so uh apparently

big cities especially on the east coast like new jersey new york were not nice places to live back in the 70s no a lot

of people got murdered a little bit yeah stuffed in oil drums and by psychotic

people but it says here that um before david berkowitz arrest allison also credited was credited with giving

an accurate description of the son of sam killer to a police artist and correctly predicting that he would be picked up on a traffic violation

and then um it says according to and that this is uh if you guys don't know david berkowitz

was the son of sam that was his nickname uh serial killer because for those of you who are old enough to

remember well we used to have a serial killer about once a year oh gosh and they all

had a cool name and you know a lot of people were like hey maybe if you stop putting them all over

the newspaper and giving them cool nicknames they'll stop around shooting people yeah every everybody had one

you know the zodiac killer the son of sam um yeah the freeway shooter the all these

people i mean it's it's you know

you know they got they have to give you know and that's especially something that even though it was in the 70s we can talk about but even now

they put so much content on social media about who they are what they look like

what they were wearing so that they almost are glorifying it it's like stop stop publicizing this like this isn't

helping this doesn't help anybody at all he was called the 44 caliber killer i mean he had a couple of cool names you

know not really a cool name if the killers at the end of it well i mean if you're

going to be a killer that's a pretty cool name yeah you know i'd be like hey this is the my little pony killer and they'd be like oh you would never hear

from him again you know what i mean seriously yeah like sparkle sparkle pants killer

the amazing sparkle rainbow killer but uh i mean they they wrote songs about him

it was crazy maybe that was after the fact but um this is david berkowitz he was a nut job he ran around shooting

people with a 44 magnum and if you know anything about 44 magnums i mean that's almost game over pretty much yeah so

completely confounded police they had no idea who he was um he was writing letters to him for some reason he called

himself the son of sam and he had his little you know doohickey insignia insignia there at the bottom

uh apparently in staten island his neighbor um

sam carr had a dog and his dog was a black lab and the dog was telling him to kill people so

uh either the dog was satan himself or the satan was speaking through the dog telling the son of sam to shoot people

i'm thinking that dog was like hey give me like that hamburger off the grill yeah if you drop a chip or something send it

my way also go shoot random people i don't think that that happens that's definitely not going to happen i see the 44 caliber killer he's taunting us they

put all that stuff in the newspaper but um yeah dorothy allison was credited with giving an accurate description of him so

i'm not sure if this is the sketch that they gave but that is the sketch that they ended up finding him with and they

and she's credited by the police on record saying that she actually gave a um

an accurate description of the son of sam killer and nobody knew who he was i mean he terrorized new york i think for

a couple years and then he actually got caught on a traffic violation so really yeah

this is how smart these people are not go back to that real quick but they found him after he shot

somebody because he double parked he's going to scroll forward here he double parked

and they gave him a ticket yep there it is right there they gave him a parking ticket and then i think it came up in the computer that

he was wanted for not paying the ticket they pulled him over and found out that he was uh yeah so so days after the

final shooting an eyewitness who lived in the bath beach it must be an area of new york said that she'd been walking her dog before the attack and saw a man

with it looked like a gun she told police there had been officers on her block writing parking tickets so

after the final shootings detective james uh told the edition digital in 2017 he went to the parking

tickets filed that night as he ran to the summons file he came across one for 25 and assigned to a card that was

parked in front of a fire hydrant and had a registration from yonkers new york wow so yeah they uh tracked him down

yeah so he parks in front of a fire hydrant and he goes and murders two people gets back in has a parking ticket

just puts in his pocket and leaves i mean i mean but this is how cavalier and how

insane these people were because they they didn't think that parking tickets and the laws abided by them you know i

mean that i mean now we're and i'm not talking about normal laws like don't kill people

you know i'm talking about normal laws of like don't park in front of a fire hydrant oh yeah don't double park nothing applies to them no nothing's

done no of course not but yes she predicted that he would get caught on a traffic violation good for her sure enough he

did god bless that woman but she did have some very public failures oh okay

and back to the la times article she

in 1996 um i'm sorry it was in atlanta in 1980. all right so

she was called to atlanta in 1980 to assist police in investigating the murders of several black children

uh an atlanta police detective brandt heard that wacko broad who rode around in a big limousine ate real well for

three days and then went home he said she gave police 42 possible names for the murderer and none of them

uh of the man ultimately ultimately arrested tried and convicted um sentence that didn't match

and this is a tragic story so this is according to all things

and this is the grizzly true story behind the atlanta child murders so we'll sum this up because i don't want to spend too much time talking about it

but from 1979 to 1981 there were at least 28 murders of children and they

were all black kids um in the atlanta area and according to the article it says in the late 70s and 80s

a mysterious killer terrorized black communities in atlanta one by one uh black children young adults were being

kidnapped and turning up dead uh days or weeks later wow so these grizzly cases would later become known as the atlanta

child murders police eventually arrested a local man named wayne williams in connection with the heinous crimes but

williams was only ever convicted of two murders far less than the 29 he was implicated in

this was the child atlanta this is the atlanta child murders

and according to the washington post it tells the story of um

dorothy allison and her involvement in the case so this is called psychic stocks a killer as a desperate atlanta

watches and hopes uh and according to art harris he's talking about dorothy here and he's

pretty rough on her he says she builds herself as a psychic bloodhound sniffing after bad vibrations she's she claims

she knows who the killer is and she sees him in her dreams she taunts him to make a move he

wouldn't dare murder any more children she vows to jousting tv cameras not while she's hot on his trail

as a last resort desperate atlanta police have asked dorothy allison a 54 year old edith bunker look-alike from

nutley new jersey to use her so-called psychic powers to help them solve the murders of 10 black children in the

disappearance of four others since 1979. so uh she has interrupted a nationwide

promotion for her book to trump about atlanta's south side with detectives for a couple of days hunting for clues

and it says we're going to get the uh the laos who did it challenge every one of my killers to try and break them down she says he's a worm

and a rat and that's what i'm going to call him it goes on to say anxious mothers of the slain and missing children have welcomed

her into their homes shown her clothing mementos and photographs so she can pick up on the scent now they sit on the

edges of their chairs trusting she can help one of the mothers said i believe in dorothy allison whose ten-year-old son

jeffrey vanished on march 11th on the way to the grocery store to buy her a pack of cigarettes she's not raising false hopes but i pray

she will tell me my child is still alive atlanta frightened over the murders and a recent boiler explosion in a daycare

center that left four other black kids dead is ready to believe almost anything

it will even try to see if a yankee lady clairvoyant can settle the score with the killer or killers who have baffled a

24-man police task force for 16 months okay so

the story goes on to say that um

so yeah like they said there was this went on for two years they had 24 police detectives scouring the atlanta area

night and day they could not find out who was doing this and then another body would would show up and then another body would show up and then another body

would show up dorothy they saw dorothy on an um episode of

this will really show your age if you remember this guy he was an episode she was on the episode of donahue uh promoting her book okay and

when all the parents saw it because they knew nothing was going on and you know first off you have to imagine that the hysteria that must have hit all these

kids went missing nobody knows where they are and kids are still ending up missing right so all these parents went to the city

council and said you got to get this lady down here just just call her and see what she says and the mayor it

says in the story the mayor was just like hey look i don't want to call this lady but the public pressure is so intense he's like

i had to call her you know it's like what are you gonna do anyway no one's finding anyone call the lady who cares so calls her she comes down

and according to the detectives that were there she's just you know some high falutin lady riding around in a

limousine eating real good for three days and according to this guy you know she's just she's just trying to sell

books and make herself more famous and then every clue that she gave the police none of them panned out

because they ended up arresting um someone who was who didn't even come

close to her description okay so but this is where it gets interesting

and this is the butt moment all right yeah i'm wait there's like there's i feel like there's something

missing here so our connection i'm really curious about back to the all that is interesting dot com article it

says police eventually arrested a local man named wayne williams in connection to the heinous crimes

but williams was only ever connected for or convicted of two murders way less than the 29 slaves he was implicated in

and furthermore he was found guilty of killing two men in their 20s not children okay so although the homicides

appeared to stop after williams was arrested some believe that he was not responsible for the atlanta child murders including some of the victims

families the tragic places later explored the netflix series mind hunter

and in the same year the real atlanta child murders case was reopened in hopes of finding the truth

so that kind of begs the question was our lady dorothy allison wrong

i'm i i want to say no and i'm also kind of curious that this guy wayne williams has

two first names so i'm wondering if the names are mixed up and there's also 29 for two and nine so

maybe the numbers you know she says two what do these numbers mean to you so

for me coming at my from my standpoint i'm looking into like okay a lot of times people are going to want

to go okay give me the exact coordinates of where they're at i mean you know what i mean to where dorothy is just like

listen i'm seeing a church steeple there's you know mar whatever mar stands for like in the

other case so i'm thinking that the desperation may be from where the police officers were like we need exact info

what's to prove something yeah i mean um it's definitely

worth i would think we're thinking about a little bit to go was she really wrong i mean she was so right about so many

other things you know for her to come there and then them to arrest somebody who was never

even convicted of murdering one of these kids he was actually convicted of murdering two men i mean the murder stopped after he was

arrested but it's like you know there's obviously more of the stories so they're pretty critical of her they're calling that a loss right but i thought that was

a pretty interesting um you know takeaway from that was that

you know everybody was on her but it's like maybe maybe she wasn't wrong maybe they just didn't

maybe they maybe they're just looking in the wrong place that kind of thing and it says you know this takes time too it took them two years to find that that

poor girl's body that got stuffed in the oil drum right you know and a lot of people that do this kind of work that

are in that are the mediums that do the same kind of work you know they can't get there's no

definitive okay it's at you know broadway street and central you know take five paces forward and three steps

back and turn around and it's gonna be right there it's basically as she was saying like the numbers locations

things she was seeing the fact that like i said something about the numbers then with the names i'm wondering if

there's a correlation with the wayne williams who was convicted compared to

these missing children well if there's any psychics out there listening who work on police stuff maybe

i wouldn't open a channel and have a look and just i don't know what to say have a look at it yeah i would um think

about it yeah i would definitely love to kind of cross some brain waves here for a little bit and i

mean literally let's talk and i mean i'm not an expert at all in this but i definitely shoot us a message tell us

what you and then especially just to give these families just a little bit of like 20 just just

god a little bit of peace for the those families yeah that would be

sorry yeah i didn't want to think about it no not at all but another one of dorothy's

hits was this interesting case i never heard of this a guy named robert charles brown

so alison was asked by the el paso police for assistance in solving the murder of a 13 year old girl um heather

on september 17th of 1991. um this is called this is on so

what ended up happening was they went to uh allison and el paso police did they

say hey we got this case we can't seem to solve it can you just just tell us anything that you that you see any any

bits of clues that you can give us and we'll we'll track them down okay so the first thing she told them and the

first thing was the name brown was significant and she stated it would not be spelled in the usual way

okay okay so she says she i keep seeing a man who took her i keep seeing he had a problem

this much i can reveal to you i know he had trouble with his hip and leg and i'd like to kick him in the other leg so he can't walk at all

god bless her and it says later on robert charles brown b-r-o-w-n-e was later arrested and

convicted of first-degree murder in the killing of heather and he admitted to killing as many as 49 other people

across america and so this is this guy oh this is robert brown

who is doing a life sentence um cheating killer killing cheating women

in colorado oh my gosh so and this is according to uh robert charles brown is a murderer and possible serial killer serving um a

life sentence in colorado brown was born in louisiana he was a high school dropout joined the army

uh when he was dishonorably discharged for drug abuse in his confession authorities say brown admitted to murdering up to 49 people in a period

spanning from 1970 until he was arrested and put in prison in 1995 so he had a 25-year run

brown instigated the new investigation by sending a cryptic letter to the authorities in 2000 the letter read

seven sacred virgins entombed side by side those less worthy are scattered wide the

score is u1 the other team 48 and the letter included a hand-drawn map with

outlines of colorado washington california new mexico texas oklahoma louisiana and arkansas and mississippi

with the body count written inside each state brown claims that he killed his first victim a soldier serving in south

korea in 1970 brown claimed that he uh in the ensuing decades he went on to

murder seven people in texas nine in colorado 17 in louisiana three in mississippi five in arkansas

two each for california oklahoma new mexico and a single one in washington state uh if true his claims would put him as

the most prolific serial killer in united states history surpassing gary leon ridgeway who in 2003 became the

nation's deadliest known serial killer after confessing to 48 murders wow brown was arrested in 1995 on chargers on

charges of murdering heather dawn church in 1991. uh in 06 he pleaded guilty to first

degree murder in the death of uh rocio sperry who was killed at the age of 15 on november 10 1987 at a

colorado springs apartment complex so

that um that is who knows if they ever would have caught this guy if it wasn't for uh allison

or i'm sorry for dorothy allison because she said that there was something wrong with him apparently this guy has something wrong with his leg like he

doesn't walk well right um he said his name was spelled in a different way

b-r-o-w-n and this guy i mean at least they got him for the death of

the little girl of the young lady but i mean he might be responsible for up to 48 more murders

beyond that and if he's willing to do it once why not 48 more times especially he's never been caught he's never been

caught again there he is writing a letter to the police department with you know

here's a map here are numbers yeah i mean is it just uh maybe he's just a guy who's bored who wants some

attention that happens a lot of times or maybe he's just well he's in prison well yeah

good but yeah i mean and that was after he was caught so that's even more significant

for the fact that she tracked this one guy down to one murder not just like you know somebody who was a known serial killer you know

who everybody was looking for this was one detective's office in one police department looking for one guy who

murdered one girl and she came in from across the country and said hey look here's what i see here's a couple clues and they and they ended up panning out

yeah but maybe after the fact she found out he was responsible for 48 more murders which is crazy

that's so crazy i feel like this woman needs to have like a movie named after her well

the story gets stranger it gets much much stranger so

there is you know we you and i talked about before we started this podcast that there was just some things that we

weren't going to talk about too much okay and one of them is kind of like murder

stories you know unless they have some kind of uh um twist to them like this like we're

talking about right now they have they have a paranormal twist to them but you know she is actually but where it gets

stranger is that you know it kind of leads the territory that we didn't want to go in is that this leads into the jonbenet ramsay

murder and she was tied to that which is which is this is where things

get really strange so

this is a picture of this guy named john carr

okay this is according to and it says psychic dorothy allison

believes she knew what jonbenet's killer looked like and provided a sketch to the ramsay family based on her visions

uh the ramsey family website published the sketch as in the public have you seen this man uh this man

in the boulder area in around 1996 and it was given to the boulder police as well and was also published on their

website so allison originally came up with the sketch during a 1998 appearance on the nationally syndicated lisa gibbons show

and then allison died a year later so four years before jonbenet's death

allison assisted el paso investigators with the investigation to the slayer the slang of heather dawn church so

to give the timeline again um 1998 she comes up with this sketch and if you

look here at the top left this is the sketch she came up with and it matches this guy here on the

right it is and you might be asking yourself who is this guy here on the right

yeah his name uh he was a suspect his name was john carr okay okay and according to all that is

interesting john mark carr was the suspected child murderer who claimed to have strangled

jonbenet ramsey so according the article he says now

allegedly living as a woman named alexis reich john mark carr confessed to

murdering six-year-old jonbenet ramsey in a 2006 email but ultimately walked free

so according to the article it says a noted conspiracist with opinions on everything from the vice president to the disappearance

of madeleine mccain john mark carr a transgender woman who now goes by alexis

valaren reich has positioned her herself as an advocate for sexual abuse survivors

especially children you're kidding so let's read that again you're kidding me a noted conspiracist

who is who who confessed to uh murder of a child who is now a transgender woman

uh is now an advocate for sexual abuse survivors especially children let's just make sure that we all got the strength

so john so this john carr person is now living

as alexis yes and he's also an advocate for for sexual abuse survivors and john

carr is the person who murdered well he so it says here that

um he implicated himself when the most sensational sensationalized child murder

cases of all time uh jonbenet ramsey in 1996. so it says here that reich went into

such graphic and disturbing detail about the crime in an email to a filmmaker examining the case that authorities were

forced to take his her claims seriously okay hold on i gotta put the glasses on all right

i gotta put the old man glasses on so nobody thinks that i'm an evil because i can't keep this straight i'm i'm do do i

get a pair i could i need a pair so reich went on to such graphene

disturbing detail to a filmmaker that the authorities were

forced to take her claims seriously however reich was dismissed with investigators failed to match her dna

with the evidence found at the ramsey's crime scene beside uh at the

time of the crime reich was reporting living as a man named john mark carr in southeast asia but that doesn't i'm

sorry ho i'm sorry that doesn't mean they're two separate people it doesn't mean that it's like a twin it's

basically the same person what do you mean the dna does it's my head's gonna look exploded where's my

glasses little is known about regularly life john mark carr and in her own words she

prefers to keep it that way excuse me but what is known reveals a life of crime

so what is known of john's mark carr's early life she doesn't want

you to know i guess whatever i can't keep it straight so rex public saga

began in 2001 when she was living as john mark carr in san francisco with a wife and two children working as a

school teacher in napa valley but within six months she lost her wife

her children and her career after she was accused of murder of a twelve-year-old georgia lee

moses of santa rosa california whose body was found on the highway in sonoma county when the police stormed

reich's home they discovered child pornography on her computer and she was immediately arrested but when the

prosecution failed to successfully bring a case against her she fled to london where she stayed for five years so wait

a minute do we have to talk about this guy in the if

do we have to talk do we have to say her in the past tense if he was a guy before he transitioned so

wouldn't that be a he because there was a date on the time that he decided to be her

maybe i'm fixating on the wrong parts i i think you're i think you're fixating on the wrong parts i think you're fixating on the i'll just put the

glasses back on yeah you're okay don't get lost you're good okay so

this guy this piece of work um this monster i'm sorry he was he was a

school teacher in 96 in california had a wife and two kids a child p word on his

computer and was implicated in the murder of a 12 year old who they found on the side of a

highway so they raided his house her house they raided the house

and could not connect him to the murder somehow with all the child porn all over his computer they let him out of jail

and then he fled to london he fled it's not like he was like oh i'm gonna

go across the whatever the pond he literally was like all right we're done immediately arrested and then the

prosecution failed to success successfully bring a case against this person this person fled to london and

stayed for five years yep so they presumed he was dead until 06 when the jonbenet ramsay case thrust her back

into the spotlight so according this in thailand so evidently london got sick of his

nonsense too and he fled out to thailand so in oh six after sending a slew of incriminating emails

to a man named michael tracy who was making a documentary about the case reich was arrested one emailed by riker poorly i didn't want to read what that

says we'll we'll okay now this week yeah we'll we'll link it if you guys

want to read it but he basically writes some kind of like creepy poem to her um you know but here's the thing is that

this person automatic like the very beginning they had this person

wrote violent action about something grisly to the point where

nobody was like oh hey by the way this this seems normal you know what i mean it's totally grotesque it's it's violent it's angry

it's hateful it's blood-filled and they're like oh you're fine this person goes and transitions to this

person and now they're they have certain

material on their website and that's okay and this person i'm sorry was a teacher

yeah was a teacher and this is what will just make my blood boil because i mean

honestly we're talking about the sweet little girl here who was taken way too young and

it's it's beyond tragic and it was just swept under the rug it's fine it's okay

it's not this person it can't be this person sorry okay and where are my grandma glasses

let me start like shaking a cane at the sky so sorry

and this is where i mean this guy's a real piece of work so he confessed to this thing and

the authorities here in america fly him back to america so it says the associate the associated press report that she was

flown first class no less are you to face murder charges in the brutal killing of jonbenet ramsay

according to the outlet reich scarfed down champagne and prawns as she chatted with federal agents who escorted her to

answer to the heinous charges but when dna evidence failed to tie her to the crime reich was dismissed as a

fame-hungry pedophile who just wanted her name attached to the case but reich objected to this

characterization claiming on her official website that her account of events corroborated with physical evidence withheld from the public by the

coroner from law enforcement from 96 to 06. so let me just ask just a quick

question okay i mean can't they just throw this guy in jail

i mean he didn't exact i mean obviously he admitted to this murder

and uh they're like there's there's no there's no evidence like no without dna we can't convict you and it's just like

okay i mean maybe you want to leave your options open because it's like you really want that dna connection but this guy fits the bill right he's he's good

throw him in jail the world's a better place with this guy behind bars yeah you know well they have i mean you have you

know what was on their website you know the material that they had on their website how is this still allowed to be like oh it's okay it's

just a little pat on your hand you're okay i mean it can't be i mean there has to

be something to where it is it's substantial enough you know

drinking champagne and eating prawns you know well he definitely wanted his moment in the sun sure i get it but i

mean i'm just like hey look if this guy shows up he's this much of a creep he's admitting to a murderer i

mean he's a legit creep oh it's an absolute monster you know what we're just gonna throw you in jail just because and you know we'll make

something stick but if you want to go for john a rams you be our guest just hang out there you know i would just lie to him be like yep we convicted you we

convicted you here's your conviction paper go to go directly to jail yeah sure do you want to you want you tell

everybody that you did it and all the rest of it and we'll just know that you're the world is a little bit safer with you behind bars yeah and actually we're going to go and actually find the

real killer or whatever it is or because this person was just looking for

you know and again we were just talking about this a lot of these killers will go and look for some sort of social media or not even just some

notoriety they go and write letters they go and do all this stuff because you know no one paid attention enough to them

sorry you're not getting never mind so well i mean and that's another thing it's like oh she's just looking for

attention it's like well what would you i mean if you were a psychopath what would you do looking for attention you know you might do

something completely heinous like murder a child so i don't know yeah

if it was up to me he'd he'd be in jail here i don't know why they let him free that doesn't make sense either they ain't going out in the article maybe we

should let's do some re-digging and you might have to do a redo on this and be like did they let that guy go because i thought he was

wanted for a murder in a bunch of child porn but maybe if you just leave the country for 25 years yeah

you know no harm no foul yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm curious to see about that

because yeah we're gonna touch back on this one because i kind of want to no now mama

bear's kind of coming out like hold on wait a minute why is this how is this okay how's it still yeah this this is

wow this was tough to to go into but it was just like the the rabbit hole just got deeper than when this guy came into the story so

they never found and this is back to all that's interesting so um they never found that he did it they

never found who'd actually did this crime and they couldn't um they could not link this john marcar aka

alexis reich by dna to the murder however um he was she was arrested for

assaulting her elderly father in 2007 pleaded no contest to charges and was ordered to attend anger management

classes later that year she was investigated for her alleged role in a sex cult involving

teenage girls um an allegation that would pop up again in 2010 so the police do a lot of investigating of this guy

but not a lot of arresting who is this person tied to i don't know i remember that you know what that's

exactly where my mind was going to and that might warrant a little research and if you guys know if you guys know the name we'll say it here again

john mark carr aka alexis reich in the san francisco area if you have any info on that let us know we'd love to hear it

um because you know there's something that isn't being told because this is

one of those unsolved cases for years with you know

let us know before this turns into like yeah yeah so enroll in a sex colon volunteer girl

is an allegation that would probably begin in 2010 when she was accused of threatening samantha spiegel a notorious

death row pen pal for blowing the whistle on the cult wright claims she has lived outside the united states since 2008 despite some

ports reports linking her to mississippi and that she is constantly battling homelessness i am still somewhat

sometimes recognized no matter how remote my location by angry admirers who mostly shout at me so

yeah this person is yeah this person evidently is still free out there running around has been investigated many times but never never

actually and here is you know what here's your anger management course

this is going to make everything better for you going and being violent against your elderly father and oh and um

well according to everything i've seen that's the least of his issues but anyway so back to the topic at hand so

what do you think psychics in police work what do you think so it looks like it's it's about 50 50.

you know it's like um 50 of detectives from what we've seen think that they're

uh useful and legitimate 50 think that they're not about half the time it seems like they

have information at least relates about half the time that they don't so to me it seems like it's so what do you

think i'll tell you what i think afterwards so i definitely think it is um very plausible i definitely think it's

something that can be able to be done because you know it's

you know dorothy allison is a very clear person of it you know she was able to give clear information and a lot of

times that i don't think a lot of people understand or know is that there's free will there's only so much

information that i know that psychics and mediums and clairvoyance and those in that field are able to receive

information and the free will goes and they can change now if there is something else that's

going on that's a whole nother thing but i think i honestly believe that there is truth

to it and i know we're gonna mention it um later but i actually have a friend of mine who

is in this field and is is well known for it um

you know and the one thing that i did like that dorothy allison had to say was that her mother told her to use her gift

um and to you know it's a gift so you have to use it for free or you know to help out and

i can definitely understand where she's coming from so i love the fact that she has this gift

since the young child and wanted to help out as many people as she can well i think it's you know it's 50 50

and i think that obviously it's like she came up with you know the thing that was

written in the bronx and said mar yeah um she gave a description of the son of sam said he'd be used uh in a

trap you know he'd be found in a traffic stop um you know came up with the guys named

brown that wouldn't be spelled the right way i mean this isn't like an exact science this is someone who's having some kind of vision that they don't

understand they're just saying hey look this is what i see tell me what you think of it and i got to tell you right now it

sounds to you yeah if one of if one of our kids went missing i mean i would i would call everybody the you know

psychics police private detectives anybody bloodhounds well and there's so much more than

outside of our of what we can see tommy lee jones

steven seagal chuck norris everybody everybody but i mean there's there's honestly i really

believe and that's kind of what what i do is that the work is that there's more than just outside the eye you know i mean there's

i know of people that get these that have these gifts and it's just

it's i i believe in it well you gotta do the best you can you have to yeah and then you have always accurate and you always get to ask people and you have to

try you have to and you have to actually believe like okay this is it you know so i'm kind of wondering if this atlantic guy was like listen he was turned off of

it from the very get-go so you know maybe he was like all right i don't believe in this that much well there's it's not an exact science either

and if he was so good if he had the answers then why to get down to calling a psychic right so

a lot of questions to be answered but i would at least listen to what they have to say and even if you don't believe it it's like you know hey even a blind